Roof Decking Repair and Water Pump, other solutions
Guardian1fox2
Member
in HUDSON
Hi everyone,
New 34 Hudson owner here looking for some advice. I want to try to attempt to do this myself as it seems pretty straight forward...and I also cant find anyone around me that'll return my call once I tell them what I need done lol.
The original "vinyl" is gone, but it looks like the rest is still there...lining, cloth netting, whatever else...maybe I need the cotton? I found some places online where I can get some short grain or smooth grain vinyl for the top. Here's what I was thinking and I would really appreciate any advice or pictures as googling this for a Hudson is all old threads and not much help. I do plan on recording the entire process to make a How-To, maybe it'll help someone else in the future....if I can do it properly lol.
Okay so I figure ill remove the metal trim ring all the way around. I'm going to take some pictures when I get home but from memory I don't know if there's some sealant on top of it or not. Either way ill slowly remove whatever it is, and (from what I've read) the tacks holding the metal down. From there, I'll see if I can keep the original stuff in place if its not bad, install new sealant, then install new black vinyl material on top with tacks and sealant, then the metal ring and sealant.
This is all just guess work as I'm new to all this honestly...a true newbie. Doug at Wildrick gave me some sources via email of some places to pick up the vinyl...but if its nothing special I may try to pick some up locally if they have the right width.
One other thing I'm working on is the water pump seal issue. I was having a lot of leaking on a newly rebuilt pump...but from talking to him he feels it was overfilled and gave me some advice. First I'm going to remove a little bit out the top with my syringe setup as its supposed to be halfway in the upper tank he says. (After driving it a bit, I had SO MUCH antifreeze under the car at first I thought I had a hole! But it was all from the overflow tube...talk about a job wiping all that off the undercarriage lol) With the car cold, and removing the radiator cap, I still have antifreeze at the lip of the radiator. So perhaps it just didn't have anywhere to go but out overflew and through seal on pump.
I still have about an inch or so of threads left on the packing gland nut or "collar". So after removing some antifreeze, I'm going to loosen the gland nut and clean threads, then tighten finger tight, and start the car. Ill let it get warm and see what happens and tighten the nut until it stops, then back off a little. Hopefully that'll get it; if not, he said to go buy some stop leak pre mixed, shake well and pour it in. With the level somewhat correct, and engine completely warm, add the bottle then plug the overflow tube with a rubber hose/bolt and let it build some pressure. (I didn't know it was a non-pressurized system...learn something new everyday lol). As it builds pressure it'll force the stop leak into the seal and they always leave it in the system and not to drain and refill. This will be a last resort for me but figured I would share in case someone else needs the info.
Thanks for any advice/support! My oldest was sitting with me yesterday as I was coming up with my restoration plan helping me make the big decisions like...when I'm going to pick him up at school again in it!
I will be taking a lot of pictures and videos for everything i do, hopefully it can help anyone else coming into this community!
Ah I almost forgot...NAPA sells the correct starter solenoid for a 34 Hudson in case anyone got stuck like I did Wednesday! lol Drove the car to my Grandfather's house again and after it not wanting to start found the negative wire loose on the solenoid. After looking at the copper bolt/stud, the threads were pretty much gone at the end and couldn't tighten anymore....and when I tried (stupidly not removing the lead from battery) it released the magic smoke. Luckily they had it and it was a quick easy swap and its got no problems now! I will remove it though and paint it to match as its silver instead of black. I've got experience with electrical so I plan on rebuilding the original to have a spare.
Okay last thing...(its not often I'm at a desk top and easy to type ) the car has an original radio in it. I have a lot of experience rebuilding tube amplifiers and radios...but before I tackle a 30's car radio i was curious if there was any interest in a repair thread on it. I've got a couple ideas of what id like to do to it...but it all depends on the transformer condition and available parts. Caps and tubes aren't the problem, but from what I've read radioed cars needed condensers on the different gauges as well as something on distributor because of interference...but we can travel down that road later i got other things up first!
-JF
New 34 Hudson owner here looking for some advice. I want to try to attempt to do this myself as it seems pretty straight forward...and I also cant find anyone around me that'll return my call once I tell them what I need done lol.
The original "vinyl" is gone, but it looks like the rest is still there...lining, cloth netting, whatever else...maybe I need the cotton? I found some places online where I can get some short grain or smooth grain vinyl for the top. Here's what I was thinking and I would really appreciate any advice or pictures as googling this for a Hudson is all old threads and not much help. I do plan on recording the entire process to make a How-To, maybe it'll help someone else in the future....if I can do it properly lol.
Okay so I figure ill remove the metal trim ring all the way around. I'm going to take some pictures when I get home but from memory I don't know if there's some sealant on top of it or not. Either way ill slowly remove whatever it is, and (from what I've read) the tacks holding the metal down. From there, I'll see if I can keep the original stuff in place if its not bad, install new sealant, then install new black vinyl material on top with tacks and sealant, then the metal ring and sealant.
This is all just guess work as I'm new to all this honestly...a true newbie. Doug at Wildrick gave me some sources via email of some places to pick up the vinyl...but if its nothing special I may try to pick some up locally if they have the right width.
One other thing I'm working on is the water pump seal issue. I was having a lot of leaking on a newly rebuilt pump...but from talking to him he feels it was overfilled and gave me some advice. First I'm going to remove a little bit out the top with my syringe setup as its supposed to be halfway in the upper tank he says. (After driving it a bit, I had SO MUCH antifreeze under the car at first I thought I had a hole! But it was all from the overflow tube...talk about a job wiping all that off the undercarriage lol) With the car cold, and removing the radiator cap, I still have antifreeze at the lip of the radiator. So perhaps it just didn't have anywhere to go but out overflew and through seal on pump.
I still have about an inch or so of threads left on the packing gland nut or "collar". So after removing some antifreeze, I'm going to loosen the gland nut and clean threads, then tighten finger tight, and start the car. Ill let it get warm and see what happens and tighten the nut until it stops, then back off a little. Hopefully that'll get it; if not, he said to go buy some stop leak pre mixed, shake well and pour it in. With the level somewhat correct, and engine completely warm, add the bottle then plug the overflow tube with a rubber hose/bolt and let it build some pressure. (I didn't know it was a non-pressurized system...learn something new everyday lol). As it builds pressure it'll force the stop leak into the seal and they always leave it in the system and not to drain and refill. This will be a last resort for me but figured I would share in case someone else needs the info.
Thanks for any advice/support! My oldest was sitting with me yesterday as I was coming up with my restoration plan helping me make the big decisions like...when I'm going to pick him up at school again in it!
I will be taking a lot of pictures and videos for everything i do, hopefully it can help anyone else coming into this community!
Ah I almost forgot...NAPA sells the correct starter solenoid for a 34 Hudson in case anyone got stuck like I did Wednesday! lol Drove the car to my Grandfather's house again and after it not wanting to start found the negative wire loose on the solenoid. After looking at the copper bolt/stud, the threads were pretty much gone at the end and couldn't tighten anymore....and when I tried (stupidly not removing the lead from battery) it released the magic smoke. Luckily they had it and it was a quick easy swap and its got no problems now! I will remove it though and paint it to match as its silver instead of black. I've got experience with electrical so I plan on rebuilding the original to have a spare.
Okay last thing...(its not often I'm at a desk top and easy to type
) the car has an original radio in it. I have a lot of experience rebuilding tube amplifiers and radios...but before I tackle a 30's car radio i was curious if there was any interest in a repair thread on it. I've got a couple ideas of what id like to do to it...but it all depends on the transformer condition and available parts. Caps and tubes aren't the problem, but from what I've read radioed cars needed condensers on the different gauges as well as something on distributor because of interference...but we can travel down that road later i got other things up first! -JF
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Comments
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You say "Rebuilt" water pump. who rebuilt it? If it leaks it should be sent back to whoever did it. Jerry Burris advertises in W.T.N. as rebuilding 30's water pumps.0
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Oh I believe Wildrick but it was probably 8 years or so ago, I just got the car so I'm learning but I don't think it was driven too much at all. He said he does have other pumps available if I needed another. Ill try this, I'm sure its nothing.Geoff said:You say "Rebuilt" water pump. who rebuilt it? If it leaks it should be sent back to whoever did it. Jerry Burris advertises in W.T.N. as rebuilding 30's water pumps.0 -
If the shaft is scored inside where the packing runs, you probably won't get it to seal. Yes, Jeremy Burris rebuilds 30's water pumps. Make sure it wasn't all coming out of the radiator overflow before deciding the water pump is bad. I am not sure about the '34 cloth roof insert, but the '33 insert had smooth oilcloth. Vinyl would be the modern equivalent. Do not buy long grain vinyl. That was used on Fords. Yes, you put all the padding, then put down vinyl, seal all that up when you fasten down. Then that final metal strip goes on with sealer. Everything has to be well sealed.0
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Thank you for the advice! Yeah I’m gonna do a little bit of experimenting first before I come to a conclusion with that pump. I believe I did get his email if all else fails I’ll reach out and see what can be done!MikeSheridan said:If the shaft is scored inside where the packing runs, you probably won't get it to seal. Yes, Jeremy Burris rebuilds 30's water pumps. Make sure it wasn't all coming out of the radiator overflow before deciding the water pump is bad. I am not sure about the '34 cloth roof insert, but the '33 insert had smooth oilcloth. Vinyl would be the modern equivalent. Do not buy long grain vinyl. That was used on Fords. Yes, you put all the padding, then put down vinyl, seal all that up when you fasten down. Then that final metal strip goes on with sealer. Everything has to be well sealed.0 -
Oh forgot to add, my mother owns a glass business, the guys gave me some tubes of sealant, said it’s the best when I get home I’ll see what it’s called it’s some commercial stuff I think.MikeSheridan said:If the shaft is scored inside where the packing runs, you probably won't get it to seal. Yes, Jeremy Burris rebuilds 30's water pumps. Make sure it wasn't all coming out of the radiator overflow before deciding the water pump is bad. I am not sure about the '34 cloth roof insert, but the '33 insert had smooth oilcloth. Vinyl would be the modern equivalent. Do not buy long grain vinyl. That was used on Fords. Yes, you put all the padding, then put down vinyl, seal all that up when you fasten down. Then that final metal strip goes on with sealer. Everything has to be well sealed.0 -
While you’re in your roof, check to see if there’s a radio antenna there. Factory documentation indicates they were installed by default regardless if a radio was ordered. I believe the wires for it run up the passenger side ‘A’ pillar from the dash. If you have or plan to add the optional radio, you’ll want to make sure it’s in place before you seal the roof up.I have a ‘34 Terraplane R/S coupe.0
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I’ll check for those, the original radio is in it, from my research looks to be produced by Zenith, which no doubt are my favorite radios. It got down to 26 yesterday afternoon/night so I didn’t venture out to the shop lol if anything I’ll be taking pictures etc this weekend or Monday depending whether or not I can feel my fingers outside 😂Toddh said:While you’re in your roof, check to see if there’s a radio antenna there. Factory documentation indicates they were installed by default regardless if a radio was ordered. I believe the wires for it run up the passenger side ‘A’ pillar from the dash. If you have or plan to add the optional radio, you’ll want to make sure it’s in place before you seal the roof up.I have a ‘34 Terraplane R/S coupe.0 -
Yes it’s a Zenith model 650. Here’s the correct radio head in my car.
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That’s exactly what mine looks like. I was glad to see the belt was in tact and I could still turn the dial. Hopefully the vinyl will be here in the next couple days. The “war department” said if I plan to keep driving the boys around in it I need to install seat belts in the back. Totally agree especially these days. So I ordered 2 aviation lap belts from retrobelt.com in a copper color I think will match the original interior. That’ll be another thing to do this week. With so many people on their phones while driving these days I definitely wouldn’t wanna be rear ended with my kids in the back seat with no restraints.0
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There’s no belt. It’s a celluloid gear set in the radio head. Do you still have the electronics box mounted on the steering column strut under the dash?The radio head controls the electronics box tuning and volume with two Bowden cables0
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Okay I haven’t messed with it yet, it’s always been belts for consoles and table tops! That’s very cool. Yeah the speaker box/amp is still mounted under the dash. Externally it looks to be in great shape. When I get the top done and seat belts in I’ll remove the main unit and check it out. I have a whole cabinet full of the proper caps for these radios. Depending how they look i may try to recap it by removing the old caps, removing the insides of them and installing the modern caps inside so it resembles original equipment…not that anyones gonna be looking inside it lol but I’ve done that with my jukeboxes and it looks great.Toddh said:There’s no belt. It’s a celluloid gear set in the radio head. Do you still have the electronics box mounted on the steering column strut under the dash?The radio head controls the electronics box tuning and volume with two Bowden cables0 -
Agree on the recapping of the unit. One area to be aware is the vibrator in these units is not a socket-mounted tin can like later units. Tough one to find.The power supply multi-section cap is easy to clean-out and install new electrolytics.0
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You mentioned that NAPA still lists the starter solenoid. This is probably a "universal" type that will fit a number of 1930's marques. However, the "real deal" solenoid actually has a pushbutton housed behind a screw-in cover that protects it. This button is invaluable for working on the car because you can start the car when working down in the engine compartment. These starters are out there and I'd advise looking around for the original Hudson one. You'll thank yourself the first time you have to fill the clutch with Hudsonite and need a way to rotate the engine until the little fill plug appears in the "window". So much easier to do with a remote starter button!
The real deal. (cap at left unscrews to reveal remote starter button). This one's from Hilltop Auto Parts but is a bit pricey at $145. Sniff around, you may find a used one that works perfectly well, for a lot less!
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Oh man I was so curious what that was under that cap! But yeah it’s more of a universal type I guess without the button but it did indeed get me out of a pinch! I’ll keep my eyes open though. I’d like to figure out how to open the original see about rebuilding it.Jon B said:You mentioned that NAPA still lists the starter solenoid. This is probably a "universal" type that will fit a number of 1930's marques. However, the "real deal" solenoid actually has a pushbutton housed behind a screw-in cover that protects it. This button is invaluable for working on the car because you can start the car when working down in the engine compartment. These starters are out there and I'd advise looking around for the original Hudson one. You'll thank yourself the first time you have to fill the clutch with Hudsonite and need a way to rotate the engine until the little fill plug appears in the "window". So much easier to do with a remote starter button!
The real deal. (cap at left unscrews to reveal remote starter button). This one's from Hilltop Auto Parts but is a bit pricey at $145. Sniff around, you may find a used one that works perfectly well, for a lot less!0 -
So the vinyl I was getting I realized wasn’t the grain I wanted so I canceled the order. I’ve been looking and trying to decide on what’s best. Where do y’all like to get your materials from?I found this kit online but it takes 3-5 weeks and idk if I have the patience for that lol: https://www.joesantiqueauto.com/car-top-roof-kit-closed-car-vtrkc123b34 I do like this option cause they include matting etc for the price, although I doubt cotton and Muslin are expensive lolThis seems like a decent price and the grain: https://www.macsautoparts.com/model-a-ford-roof-material-open-cars-colonial-grain-vinyl-54-wide-sold-by-the-foot-28-55451-1.html. It’s not long grain and I guess resembles leather.
I saw Restoration supply had some really nice stuff, but never ordered from them, same thing with restoration specialties.I guess my question is has anyone had experience with the last two? Im leaning towards Restoration Supply; since that’s the advice I got originally. I was gonna order 3 yards to be safe. I’ll go to local stores for the other fabric and padding if I need it.Since it’s so cold out; I had an idea on pre stretching the vinyl. I think I’m going to build a wooden frame, and sandwich the edges tightly and put it in the garage with shop heater for a day or so. Then while it’s warm in the garage I’ll fit it on the top. I did find the truck of marking the holes on the roof with chalk in the fisher body manual so know where holes are. My original owners manual came in today and it’s in amazing shape. Boy what a DIFFERENCE…they go through timing, pretty much everything in detail…versus in our glorious day…the manual tells you not to drink the battery acid.0 -
Okay so this afternoon I'm going to finally get a chance to start removing the trim etc and prepare for the new roof fabric. I'm at work trying to go off my memory as I'm ordering some things I think I will need. On the '34 Deluxe, I notice there is a metal trim piece there, but is there any rubber that goes over it or is it just sealed with sealant and some type of welt? I just want it to look like it should I haven't been able to find any pictures really of what its supposed to look like.0
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Went and locally was able to find cotton batting, Muslin fabric, and the tacks. Vinyl should be in from Restoration Supply Wednesday or so, and Friday will be the day I install finally! I’m stumped tho, according to Section 20 page 5, it mentions “finish binding”. Anyone can give me a clue as to what is the correct material that’s the “finish binding”? Google-fu and forum searches for the Hudson have no answers I can find.0
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Here’s some more images of the radio head
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More pics
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My 1934 Hudson has what appears to be the original top material and it IS long grain. It's a rubberised material that is a dull version of the modern vinyl. The dullness is due to age and I guess it was as shiny as the modern stuff when it was new.Guardian1fox2 said:
Thank you for the advice! Yeah I’m gonna do a little bit of experimenting first before I come to a conclusion with that pump. I believe I did get his email if all else fails I’ll reach out and see what can be done!MikeSheridan said:If the shaft is scored inside where the packing runs, you probably won't get it to seal. Yes, Jeremy Burris rebuilds 30's water pumps. Make sure it wasn't all coming out of the radiator overflow before deciding the water pump is bad. I am not sure about the '34 cloth roof insert, but the '33 insert had smooth oilcloth. Vinyl would be the modern equivalent. Do not buy long grain vinyl. That was used on Fords. Yes, you put all the padding, then put down vinyl, seal all that up when you fasten down. Then that final metal strip goes on with sealer. Everything has to be well sealed.0 -
The U-shaped tacking strip was sealed to the top of the channel to cover the nail heads.Guardian1fox2 said:Okay so this afternoon I'm going to finally get a chance to start removing the trim etc and prepare for the new roof fabric. I'm at work trying to go off my memory as I'm ordering some things I think I will need. On the '34 Deluxe, I notice there is a metal trim piece there, but is there any rubber that goes over it or is it just sealed with sealant and some type of welt? I just want it to look like it should I haven't been able to find any pictures really of what its supposed to look like.
It would have been some sort of bitumen sealer originally but I re-did mine with black silicone. I think it original had a thin strip of leather cloth set in the top of the channel to cover the sealant but it would be impossible to reproduce.
Between outer edge of the strip and the roof, seal it flush with black silicone and after cleaning off the (inevitable) excess smudges, paint the strip satin black.
Having sealed the roof in this way, I have no leaks.
If you want a close up pic of what I did, message me.0 -
Thanks Fogey! I’ll send you a message. So what did you put in the U shape trim? Did you just fill the U with urethane or silicone and just make it flush? Figure that may be a pain if I ever have to remove it for some reason tho to dig it all outOld Fogey UK said:
The U-shaped tacking strip was sealed to the top of the channel to cover the nail heads.Guardian1fox2 said:Okay so this afternoon I'm going to finally get a chance to start removing the trim etc and prepare for the new roof fabric. I'm at work trying to go off my memory as I'm ordering some things I think I will need. On the '34 Deluxe, I notice there is a metal trim piece there, but is there any rubber that goes over it or is it just sealed with sealant and some type of welt? I just want it to look like it should I haven't been able to find any pictures really of what its supposed to look like.
It would have been some sort of bitumen sealer originally but I re-did mine with black silicone. I think it original had a thin strip of leather cloth set in the top of the channel to cover the sealant but it would be impossible to reproduce.
Between outer edge of the strip and the roof, seal it flush with black silicone and after cleaning off the (inevitable) excess smudges, paint the strip satin black.
Having sealed the roof in this way, I have no leaks.
If you want a close up pic of what I did, message me. I’ll look and see tho from your pic, hard to visualize for me right now. I also thought after putting a small bead to cover racks inside the trim, I could find some rubber same width and shove it in to give it a clean look. Ima update this thread with pictures today. 0 -
I hope I didn’t bite off more than I can chew. I’ll admit when I got that tarp off I felt a little overwhelmed never having done this before. Fortunately goo-gone helped with not removing more of the paint from the tape. I’ll see if I can get the roof sanded and painted back to look like the rest if possible after roof done cause the primer is very very good underneath. Maybe I can find someone that can lightly sand and get the peeling paint back a bit then just shoot those spots.Anyways, here is some pics of what I found. I find it scary but also fascinating lol. So you can see the different original layers which is cool. Bottom Muslin fabric, then a cotton padding, then what looks like another muslin fabric then the black “canvas” roof material. Boy is vinyl gonna be an upgrade! If anyone knows someone around SWLA or SETX that could come assist and give advice, I wouldn’t mind paying their way and paying for their time…and their beer! Lol I’m just afraid ima mess something up. Can’t really afford to make a big mistake lol
One other thing, how can I keep humidity down in a shop? I have a 30x40 shop, with 2 roll up doors in the front and 1 in back, and I just feel like ima have humidity rusting issues with this stupid Louisiana weather. For instance my oil tell-tell has always worked, today, it worked then went out before I even started it lol But boy did Doug at Wildrick do a good job putting thing thing together cause it’s been sitting 6 days and got down to 26, today is in 40s…got in…and it fired right up
. I do need to figure out how to keep my leaf springs from getting surface rust between each leaf, the antifreeze that got on it the other day is making it nasty. The pretty black paint has orange in between. I wiped it down and sprayed with some oil hoping to repel. OH and i ran it for prolly 5 min, and no antifreeze out the water pump…so I guess it was just the fact it had too much and no where to go. Will have to see once I can drive it again.
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Really going to document this entire endeavor because there’s just not a lot of detailed info for this process on Hudson’s or really anything that shows pictures. Hopefully it can help other newbies.0
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I'll do a couple of pics and post them here tomorrow night if that's OK.0
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That would be great no rush!Old Fogey UK said:I'll do a couple of pics and post them here tomorrow night if that's OK.0 -
Quick question, anyone know what metal the headlights are made out of? Aluminum or steel? Wanted to try and remove some of the tarnish while I was waiting on materials for roof. Tail lights look like steel, and I’m sure the windshield trim is also steel. I got some bar keepers friend, various polishes, steel wool etc and I figure it was worth a shot to bring some life back into them. I got a metal and wood lathe, and on the wood lathe I have a 3 on lathe buffing setup, may try alike a rear taillight housing first by hand and see what happens. Small parts would polish up easy on the lathe with its variable speed. I used it a lot when I was making tobacco pipes out of briar and the stems from vulcanite. You can turn it at like 300 rpm or even lower for final polishing and boy it would bring a shine like you wouldn’t believe lol0
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A magnet will show if steel or Ali0
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Can’t believe I didn’t think of that lolESSX28-1 said:A magnet will show if steel or Ali0 -
I guess what I was really asking is if the headlight buckets are chrome or nickel plated? Sorry it was late last night at work when I typed that up lolESSX28-1 said:A magnet will show if steel or Ali0
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