Comments

  • BigSkyBigSky Posts: 977Senior Contributor
    Never in a million years!
  • beaverbikesbeaverbikes Posts: 39Member
    I like it!
  • superwaspsuperwasp Posts: 234Member
    Curiously lacking a $$ amount, but I think we all know why. Neat idea, but it's not really cost competitive to do a conversion yet.
  • superwaspsuperwasp Posts: 234Member
    This is a bit tangential to this thread, but interesting... What do you do with a used Tesla that needs a new battery to the tune of $22,000 USD? Here's one answer: 

  • railknightrailknight Posts: 465Expert Adviser
    Not the best PR for Tesla.
  • superwaspsuperwasp Posts: 234Member
    Meh. Consumers have short memories. I don't hear any Mach E buyers questioning why you don't see many 2000-2012 Hybrid Escapes on the road anymore.
  • 50C8DAN50C8DAN Posts: 2,420Senior Contributor
    edited December 2021

    I have no interest whatsoever in buying an EV at this point.  I am sure I am not alone.  The govt forcing this is going to backfire big time.  The price of used ICE vehicles is going to climb, sales of new vehicles will drop, there is no solution on charging for those that cannot at home.  How is a city person living in a duplex or townhouse that has no garage supposed to charge overnight?  The govt also fails to mention the cost of putting the multi-thousand dollar charging station in your house hooked to 220V - 110V forget it.   Traveling to ND or MT want to charge on the way?  Good luck.  Last I saw the bait and switch price for EVs is a joke - Ford F150EV is advertised for $50K, but in actuality, it is more like $80K for something that most would be interested in buying.  That GM Hummer that Biden drove and was raving about - $100K+, get real.  

    I have no doubt that EVs are the future, but we are still a ways out.  What I don't like is the materials for EVs will be dominated by China and it is not clear that will improve in the future unless they can develop technology that does not use rare earth metals.

    A bit more on energy:

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/californias-great-climate-fail-next-10-report-11639691805?st=z9sbdo81w7jq3n4&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

  • Old Fogey UKOld Fogey UK Posts: 794Expert Adviser
    superwasp said:
    This is a bit tangential to this thread, but interesting... What do you do with a used Tesla that needs a new battery to the tune of $22,000 USD? Here's one answer: 

    The best use of 60kg of high explosive that I've ever seen !
  • Old Fogey UKOld Fogey UK Posts: 794Expert Adviser
    My poor knowledge of Finnish let me down - it only took 30kg to obliterate that Tesla.
  • Old Fogey UKOld Fogey UK Posts: 794Expert Adviser
    And they put an Elon Musk doll in it first ! 🤣🤣🤣
  • 25truck25truck Posts: 44Member
    I agree with 50C8DAN

    the Technology isn’t there Yet 
    and most people don’t realize that only a small portion of a barrel of crude oil is fuel,  petroleum products are in everything we use all day long 



    John 😉
  • Old Fogey UKOld Fogey UK Posts: 794Expert Adviser
    The fact that kids aged 6 are working in Chinese-owned cobalt mines in Africa to make the darned things kind of puts me off electric vehicles.
    Michael Moore is a pain in the posterior but his movie "Planet of the Humans" puts the so-called Green Revolution in perspective - his point is that the cure for climate change is far worse than the actual problem.
  • 40indianssgmailcom40indianssgmailcom Posts: 271Senior Contributor
    I am certain this same mentality  was evident when the automobile was beginning to replace the horse and buggy. Where will you get gasoline when a horse can just be turned out to pasture. The electric car as it exists right now is not the end result of 120 years of mainstream development. All technology is changing so rapidly that this debate will appear silly in 20 years. Look at your smartphone it is now a computer. Should we return to dropping a dime at a phone booth to make a call?  Just sayin’
  • pseftoncomcastnetpseftoncomcastnet Posts: 159Senior Contributor
    Most trips are local and EVs are about perfect for this use. The last 5 cars bought in my neighborhood were 4 Teslas and a volt. The Volt plugs into a 220 outlet that cost less than a few tankfulls of gas to install. The future is now!
  • MikeSheridanMikeSheridan Posts: 146Member
    Just make sure you park your EV far from your house ( and especially your Hudsons), as they catch fire with alarming regularity and burn up everything within 50 feet of them.
  • GlowplugGlowplug Posts: 2,255Expert Adviser
    When we get on the track of taking sides in this change to transportation, there will be winners and losers.  The facts are plain in all areas.  The ones that do not support the position we take are discarded or called out as hazy or hoaxes.  The ones that support our position get to be part of our quiver of facts supporting our desired outcome. 

    The speed of science is NOT based on what is good for human kind ... it is based on what supports the desires of those who are investing the money and taking in the money. I am not part of either group. BUT, I have lived long enough to know that the technologies we are now accepting are NOT NECESSARILY the BEST for our well being or our future.  I will not live long enough to be part of the society that never knew internal combustion engines... but I have shoveled ROAD APPLES because they were a by product of our need for the horse to assist us in farming. 

    SO, is the cure for climate change far worse than the actual problem? 
  • jjbubaboyjjbubaboy Posts: 872Senior Contributor
    Just make sure you park your EV far from your house ( and especially your Hudsons), as they catch fire with alarming regularity and burn up everything within 50 feet of them.
    AND, not to mention, the fires are VERY hard to put out! 
    Jeff
  • 35 Terraplane35 Terraplane Posts: 369Senior Contributor
    Should you have the opportunity watch Sr David Attenborough's documentary "A Life on our Planet".  A very informative look at where human kind has been and where we may be possibly headed.  He addresses some of the issues that have been mentioned above.
  • RichardDRichardD Posts: 754Member
    I will have to mention LUCID since it is not mentioned here that I see. Amazing technology, regardless.  
    Motor, transmission, axles, etc, wheel to wheel is 635 HP and weighs 168 #. 
    Car goes 530 miles on a charge. Charges in 30 min.
    Car produces 1110 HP
    9.8 Qtr mile
    M T Car of the Year
    Think I remembered this data correctly ! But watch below for exact info.
    Almost perfection in quality.
    They produce everything about the car, motors, batteries, etc etc. 
    Be informed>>> https://youtu.be/NABa3gS3k-U



  • 25truck25truck Posts: 44Member
    RichardD
    thanks for the link. I had never heard of LUCID and found that video very interesting 
    BUT 
    I still love my collection of rusty old cars/trucks  and I don’t really want anything to do with EVs mostly because everything I own is paid for and the technology is changing so fast that what you buy today is very expensive and out of date tomorrow and worthless . Also I can’t work on it and don’t want to 
    I’m just hoping that I can afford fuel for my old cars for the next 20-30 years and then they can crush all my old junk and make  EVs  out of it  because I will be  fertilizer and I won’t care 😉
    Just my selfish way of saying I wish we could have cheep fuel so I can just keep playing with my toys (old Junk)

    John

    my oldest car is my 1925 Hudson and my newest one is my 1995 Chevy van 
    And nun of them are very fuel efficient 
  • RichardDRichardD Posts: 754Member
    Lowest I go is '31 Franklin and highest is 2008 Lexus (110K,34mpg on hwy and 10 AIRBAGS !; life too short to do otherwise~~)



  • 53NamedGeorge53NamedGeorge Posts: 93Member
    Airbags,what are those 😂 
    All I drive is up to 1965. A seat belt is a uncommon sight in older vehicles but in my 65 falcon I have 6 only because it’s my daily.  
    The thing with EVs that the news misses is what @Old Fogey UK said about the youth of Asia and other places working for cents on the dollar working for these chemicals in unsafe environments . Are electric cars neat , sure, if there from 1905 . New ones are a discrace to the automotive industry. And dangerous, catching fire and all
  • superwaspsuperwasp Posts: 234Member
    It's not just Asia. The cobalt and lithium is mined across the globe in 3rd world countries with no equivalent to our EPA. Companies like Lucid will claim they make their own batteries, but the raw materials come from overseas from Chinese owned mines. 
  • RichardDRichardD Posts: 754Member
    Doesn't take much effort to find the following:
    25% of world's supply is said by geologists to be in NV, USA. Most at Silver Peak mine.
    That lithium is sent to Kings Mt, NC and converted to LIOH that is then sent to Asia for conversion to battery cells, similiar to watch batteries, Panasonic is big player in this. The cells are then assembled into 900V packs, patented by Lucid for use by Lucid.
    My initial comment was for info since some had likely not heard the name 'Lucid'; not to distort thread. 
    FYI: would you believe Tesla delivered 936,000 EVs in 2021 !! Wondered what other car companies did ?



  • superwaspsuperwasp Posts: 234Member
    Lithium supply does not equal mined product. That Silver Peak mine you referenced doesn't disclose their production numbers publicly, but it's believed to be less than 1000 metric tons annually. Meanwhile Chile and China disclosed 18,000 and 14,000 metric tons annually in 2020.
  • GlowplugGlowplug Posts: 2,255Expert Adviser
    In the same vein as my previous post... the conversation MUST include the subsidies and the political take overs of the resources of counties as well as propaganda that the US and other countries feed to their citizens.  I venture to make the statement that most of the posters on this and other EV forums have zero experience with the mining ... politics ... subsidies and the technical requirements and how they are handled.  Battery manufacture for EVs is NOTHING like the construction of other batteries save maybe the large capacity sources constructed for military or major construction equipment's.   The assembly of batteries was forced off shore due to propagandized hazards with the material mining and handling... BUT then again when the mining in the US is benefiting the money holders .... EPA who?   The off shore assembly is to exploit the slavery and slavery wages being paid for off shore battery cell manufacture and full battery assembly. This allows the manufacturing country to make Trillions of dollars and the EV manufacturers to obtain batteries that are not priced at the real cost of manufacture.  All this is economics as it exists today, world wide.  But do you know what the quality control processes are for cell manufacture... cell to cell welding, cell matching?  Why does this need to be discussed?  Physics my friends on this board!,  The Chinese have long doped cells in a manner that creates unbalanced chains of cells.  Do they test them to the requirements... only when "the public face of the buyers QC department appears"!   How would I know... been there done that ... once again... taking sides in this conversation is like riding a snake... it will slither out from under you and maybe bite/eat you too.   Batteries are now the biggest environmental hazard world wide... equivalent to nuclear waste in my mind.... Have a great evening folks. 
  • KdancyKdancy Posts: 2,501Senior Contributor
    Just make sure you park your EV far from your house ( and especially your Hudsons), as they catch fire with alarming regularity and burn up everything within 50 feet of them.
    Our neighbour recently saw his late model gas powered vehicle burn to a crisp, setting in his yard. 
    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
  • Old Fogey UKOld Fogey UK Posts: 794Expert Adviser
    Should you have the opportunity watch Sr David Attenborough's documentary "A Life on our Planet".  A very informative look at where human kind has been and where we may be possibly headed.  He addresses some of the issues that have been mentioned above.
    I can also recommend www.wattsupwiththat.com for perhaps a more balanced view of climate issues than you'll get from Attenborough.
    YouTube have apparently taken down the Michael Moore movie but, if you can find it , it demonstrates the hypocrisy of the green energy business who are creating more pollution and CO2 than the so-called "dirty" products they are supposed to be replacing.
  • StepUpStepUp Posts: 18Member
    edited January 6
    I'd offer that if you are on this site you probably revere technology whether it be ancient (2000BC), old (1850), modern (1909), or post modern (+1995). I'd also guess that most of you have spent many of your conscious years learning about, maintaining, and improving the technology we have at hand. So as a group it's not that we are anti-technology or progress. In my case what I find offensive are the flat out lies, deception, and constant propaganda as to why the world MUST immediately adopt full scale EV transportation technologies dam the torpedoes! To "save the planet!?" Hogwash. The question I have is why are US policy makers abandoning hybrid technologies (combustion + electric) and instead forcing frogs to leap into such an obviously juvenile and non-sustainable technology? As a kid I learned frogs are smart and know when to leap regardless of how fast or slow the water temperature rises. 
  • PaulButlerPaulButler Posts: 930Administrator
    I have thought long and hard about this but am now closing this discussion down because it's not really what this forum is about.

    A while ago the "Off Topic" portion of the forum was removed (and boy did I get some vitriol around that) however , in discussion with the other Admins, we decided that we should keep this forum Hudson based.

    This discussion , as interesting as it is, has wandered away from that 

This discussion has been closed.