54 Hornet 308 not running

duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
I have been trying for 3 weeks or longer to get our car started. My cousin came over and tested the spark to coil and after dist to plugs. He said I had plenty of spark. I was so upset that I bought new coil dist cap and points and condensor. and had them installed.I have a electric fuel pump that is pumping good.Could the car4bs be not operating .I did not drive the car for a couple of weeks.As I was trying to start the car it backfired worse than a 30-30 sound. And would run on a few cylinders some times.When I put the new motor in I used the oil pump gear from the same motor it had no visible wear that I could see. Could that have stripped out.  Ray From  Canada

Comments

  • squirrelsquirrel Posts: 168Member
    If it's getting spark to the plugs, then the distributor is turning, and the oil pump is turning. But it's possible the gear is worn enough that it skipped a few teeth, did you carefully check the timing? If the spark is happening at the wrong time it will behave like that


  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    My cousin checked the timing by taking out number 1 spark plug and turning engine over till the piston was on top dead compression then checked the firing order and rotor was facing no.1 wire in dist. cap then checked all wires were going to proper plugs.  Ray
  • squirrelsquirrel Posts: 168Member
    You should be able to tell if the carbs are either flooded or starved for fuel, they will be either soggy or flooded. If they have a bit of gas in down inside them, and the accelerator pumps are working, and the chokes are working, then you should be able to get it to run a bit.


    How do the plugs look? If they got fouled somehow, it won't run...but they can also be used to "see" what's going on in the combustion chambers.


  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    Thanks Squirrel for you help  
  • GlowplugGlowplug Posts: 1,835Expert Adviser
    Duncan -  I know your car was running in the past.  If it will not start now and has good spark... I will start if you prime the carbs with gas or spray a good dose of starter fluid into each bore.  The engine will not run long... but it will run if the timing is good.  If this does not work ... remove the coil wire from distributor, disconnect the fuel line from front carb.   With a helper, place a container to catch fuel from the pump and spin the engine over with the solenoid button.  If you get fuel, and the carburetors are not providing fuel to the engine, there is something wrong and this needs to be attended to.
    Without fuel then ... I would check to see if fuel is available at the inlet of the fuel pump.   I let a car set for 3 months and the fuel pump diaphragm failed when I attempted to start it.   ... Lots of possibilities. Check these to focus your efforts.
  • squirrelsquirrel Posts: 168Member
    Usually when I want to get an engine started and it's been sitting long enough to dry out the carbs (modern fuel evaporates relatively quickly), I will pour a bit of gas into the carb(s). I try to get most of it into the vent tube, if it has one, so it will refill the float bowl. A few fluid ounces is about as much as it takes. Be sure to reinstall the air cleaner before you try to start the engine! if it backfires, the gas could catch on fire, which is bad. The air cleaner will prevent this.

  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    Thanks for the help.
  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    I have an electric fuel pump and there is plenty of gas comming out of the line at the front carb.  Ray
  • ratlee2ratlee2 Posts: 253Expert Adviser
    What you are describing sounds like timing.  When I was starting my fresh rebuild it did the same thing.  My plug wire was off by one on the distributor cap.
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton Posts: 5,131Administrator, Moderator
    Hudsons can also "jump" timing.  If there is sufficient stretch in the timing chain, it can jump a tooth or more when shut off.  It's fairly rare, but does happen.  I would check everything else before you look there.  
  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    I installed a tru double roller chain from  Randy Maas. I hope that is not the problem. Thanks every body for your help

  • KdancyKdancy Posts: 2,385Senior Contributor
    Sure sounds like more of a timing issue to me. If you are getting fuel and spark, take a closer look at the timing. Make sure you dont have a vacume leak.
  • GlowplugGlowplug Posts: 1,835Expert Adviser
    Duncan you stated that the distributor cap was changed...if the spark plug cables were out of order your issue would occur.  I can attest to my own experience of placing all of the spark plug cables one hole clockwise from where they belonged... that event created days of havoc for me!
  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    The cap that was on the car looked like the carbon was burnt off and plastic around carbon was chipped away. That cap was no 106 with 2 letters in front slipped my mind so bought a 138 cap and was wondering if holes were in different place. My cousin pulled the wires and moved them one turn to right and tried to start the car no luck then moved them 2 places to left tried starting car still no luck so put them back in previous spot on cap.Unless the carbs are stuck.
  • Ol racerOl racer Posts: 2,479Senior Contributor
    Did it run after installing the new Timing Chain Set and this is a new problem ocurring after setting?  Backfiring indicates more  ofa Timing Issue as mentioned above....
  • Ken U-TxKen U-Tx Posts: 3,725Senior Contributor
    I bet you got the Maas double roller chain setup installation wrong if you did that right before the car quit running. I have installed them with no issues, but if you tried to install the Maas setup likn in the Hudson shop manual it will be way off.........The timing marks on the MAAS setup must be done as in the instructions that came with the Maas setup, and if you set the Maas chain up correctly, it is for #6 at TDC AND READY TO FIRE.

  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    Happy news  I went to the garage today and took about a 1/2 cup of gas and poured into each carb. Turned overa few times and fired up. needs to be fine tuned with advance and retard setting on dist,.I gues I didnt have enough gas in the cylinders. Hallalulia. Thanks every one.  Ray 
  • GlowplugGlowplug Posts: 1,835Expert Adviser
    edited August 7
     :)  Happy days and a dance or 2  B) 
  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    Thanks Glow Plug It is hard to figure out how much to pump the gas petal and also how much is to much and not to flood the engine.  Ray
  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    Tonight our cousin came over and helped me fine tune the distributor .We had to chang the adjustment of the thick plate to get more advance. Runes great now.When I replaced the dist.cap with a 138 instead of 106 the cap leads were a little different   Ray
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton Posts: 5,131Administrator, Moderator
    edited August 9
    duncan-

    I was told a long time ago that Hudson's are very easy to start if you know what to do.  This is not the end all bible of starting a Hudson, but I have had quite a bit of success with this method:

    I was told, any Hudson will start with this system:  Push the accelerator all the way to the floor.  On the third push, hold it to the floor and hit the starter, when the engine starts to catch, let up on the accelerator.  

    Since your problem had to do with fuel, I'll share this with you, too.  When Hudsons sit, even for a short time, the fuel drains back to the tank and your carbs become empty.  That's one of the reasons I equip mine with an electric fuel pump and a glass-bowl filter right before the carbs.  I like priming the carbs before I try to start by getting the gas up to the carbs.  You can monitor that by watching the glass bowl fill up.  By doing this, you are not cranking on the engine for long periods of time waiting for the Mechanical pump to move the gas all the way from the tank.   

    All of the concern and checking this and that (I know you had some distributor issues, too), but literally you were just out of gas.  

    Russell
  • duncanduncan Posts: 828Expert Adviser
    edited August 9
    Thanks Russell for the idea I have an elextric fuel pump on the car and I let it run for a short time before I tried to start the car, The dist cap I put on the posts in the two caps were out about 1/2 a hole so the dist had to be advanced more. It is running great now but has a slight hesitation when stepping on the gas.I guess I just needed more gas in the intake.  Hudsonly  Ray
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