Aluminum head on ebay

KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
edited April 7 in HUDSON Posts: 2,209
Just got a note back on this one. It only measures 1.88 thickness. Wall hanger!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/292486017606?ul_noapp=true
  (stock is supposed to be 2" although I have never measured one at that)  Hudson said no more then .060 milled off so that puts minimum at 1.94" 

53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
64 Champ pickup
Wellborn, Fl

Comments

  • drivergo2drivergo2 Expert Adviser
    Posts: 353
    Do you know what they started out as , and what the least they can be milled to . The alum. And the Iron . Thanks John 

  • Ken U-TxKen U-Tx Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,435
    Nominal is 2". Minimum safe most times is about 1.940", both iron & aluminum.
  • BrowniepetersenBrowniepetersen Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,002
    Mine measures 1.996 from the bottom surface to the bolt surface where the head bolt and washer meet.
    Brownie
  • Oldfarmer1947gmailcomOldfarmer1947gmailcom Expert Adviser
    Posts: 1,546
    My friend Rudy Bennett shared the following link.  I plan to call Summit on Monday to Findout what they are doing to obtain the varied thickness head gaskets.  Looks like a problem solver?

    https://www.summitracing.com/search?PageSize=50&SortBy=BestKeywordMatch&SortOrder=Ascending&keyword=308%20hudson%20head%20gasket
  • KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
    edited April 8 Posts: 2,209
    Might help. Rudy and I had discussed this several years ago and I had checked on having some thicker head gaskets made. I can't find any listing for these on the SCE gasket site. Might call them later.
    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
  • Ken U-TxKen U-Tx Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,435
    Thicker head gaskets may help the clearance for the valves and spark plug electrode, but won't help the head itself structurally.....A thin head is still more prone to warping.
  • KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
    Posts: 2,209
    Ken, I was wondering about that.
    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
  • BrowniepetersenBrowniepetersen Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,002
    I would think that another big problem would be blowing out the internal water jacket.
    Brownie
  • rambos_riderambos_ride Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,186
    So - given todays scanning technologies - I'd think someone could take a pristine or near pristine aluminum head and get it 3d scanned.

    Just think you could then fix anything design wise (couple mils thicker maybe), then mill from an aluminum block?

    Not saying they'd be cheap...but period correct parts aren't cheap either!
  • Ken U-TxKen U-Tx Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,435
    Actually the an over-milled head can be used for the three D scan, and the needed thickness on bottom dialed into the CAD program for a 3D printer. The 3D printer can then make the upper and lower halves in a low temp plastic that are then inserted in the cope and flask , packed with casting sand, heated to melt the plastic out, and then the molten aluminum is poured into the sprue.... The old head used as the pattern for 3D scanning would have to be cut into two halves, with a wire EDM preferably in a deep tank wire EDM. No one would want to destroy a "pristine" head for 3D scanning purposes.


  • rambos_riderambos_ride Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,186
    Ken - Thanks! That's awesome information - I've not ever really looked into how someone might go about it - but maybe if someone could get original blueprints (I'd imagine that's how they did it in the day) to re-enter into a cad type program - that you'd have to cut up a head to be able to scan the internals.

    I would certainly like to have on of those on heads my 51 someday, but the cost and not being able to see it person have always kept me away.



  • KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
    Posts: 2,209
    Rudy and Chucks design offers better performance then the stock Hudson design. If one were going to be produced, theirs would be the one.
    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
  • Ken U-TxKen U-Tx Senior Contributor
    edited April 9 Posts: 3,435
    Unfortunately the firm that did the work on Bennett- Fellows head stole the patterns from Rudy and Chuck.  They got screwed over royally by MFT Manufacturing/ Empire Motors, or whatever alias they use today in Canutillo, TX. These F***ers screwded over lots of people. Just Google the two company names or "Valor Blazer" and you will see....
  • KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
    Posts: 2,209
    Yep, if not for this shyster there would be a lot of Hudsons with these heads.
    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
  • bob wardbob ward Senior Contributor
    Posts: 1,016
    If anyone is going to get serious about making aluminium 308 heads they need to be made thicker than 2".
    An aluminium head of similar design to the standard steel head has less than half of the stiffness of the steel head, Jack Clifford recognised this and produced a 3" thick aluminium head to compensate for the lack of stiffness. 
    Lockyer Valley, Queensland
  • KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
    edited April 13 Posts: 2,209
    Note to me from Rudy, 

    this was a topic when we were trying to cover all bases, The cyl head takes the most heat on gas and Diesel engines  and while working for Caterpillar tractor the cylinder head was built with more that enough Iron to hold as much water as can be..

      The Clifford cyl head holds a bit less water that our B-F Head, and that is due to the ribs cast inside on the floor of the  head running the full length inside of the head...

     We did not have the casting ribs added to the floor of our head because the ribs hold heat and harder for the water to flow from front to rear of the head.   (the ribs were there to help the sealing of the gasket between the head bolts  on the starter side on the 308 engine with Clifford's head.

        The head needs lots of fee flowing coolant to keep it cool and cause less Detonation in the cylinders  so, the more space inside of the head between the inside top and inside bottom the better power the engine can make due to less Detonation.

    More-

    Combustion Chamber:

    1. The combustion chambers were designed to yield the most flow with a high compression ratio.

    2. There are no two chambers alike (each one is different).

    3. Chambers are 80cc which yields an 8.4 to 1 compression ratio in a 308 engine.

    4. The max depth of the chambers at the back of the valves is 0.52 inches (intake) 0.49 (exhaust),

    **Note: the highest lift cams are 0.446 and original Hudson cams are from 0.350 to 0.390

    **Note: the valves are tilted at about 7 degrees.

    5. The slope from the combustion chamber to inside the cylinder is 52 ½ degrees.

    6. The spark plug has been relocated to the center of the chamber, and a long reach spark plug is to be utilized, 14MM, ¾ Reach, 13/16 Hex such as N12YC.

    7. V. B. reduced the perimeter of the combustion chamber 1/32, to allow fore variances.

      The head has completed several testing actions
    · The Twin Vortex feature of this new aluminum head was flow tested. The modified combustion chamber was compared to the combustion chamber of a stock head. What we learned was the new head created a vortex which flowed around the valves towards the piston and out the intake valve. The stock chamber flow patterns indicated kick back of the flow to both valves.

    Rudy Bennett credits Chuck Fellows, also an avid Hudson fan, with the combustion chamber design and testing. The product shown is the result of months of research into the successes and failures of past flat head engine head design. Coupling this with practical flow testing a final design was produced which is incorporated into the TWIN VORTEX head


    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
  • KdancyKdancy Senior Contributor
    Posts: 2,209

    This is the Brochure that Rudy and Chuck had made up for the new head. 




    53 Super Wasp Coupe ready for restoration
    53 Studebaker Coupe Custom
    64 Champ pickup
    Wellborn, Fl
    B&F Hudson Aluminum head brochure.jpg
    2550 x 3300 - 7M
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