The 1930 Essex Coupe restoration thread

TwinH

A new thread to document the trials and tribulations of fixing up this coupe

that followed me home.http://classiccar.com/index.php?option=com_jfusion&Itemid=62&jfile=showthread.php&p=122002#post122002



Thanks guys! I'm going to start a new thread for wants/needs, info,

moral support,etc while I wade through restoration of this neat old

30 Essex coupe. All here can share the blame/credit for infecting me

with this Hudson bug. As a lifelong Chevy guy that hot rodded almost

everything I got my hands on,this is a pretty big step for me. I have

a fairly substantial mechanical background including an A&P ticket and

have been through splasher motors before.What I'm really lacking is

the Hudson specific knowledge that members of this community have

coming out their ears. I look forward to mining this knowledge to make

this coupe the best that it can be. Thanks for the help, Jeff Lynn

TwinH

First order of business on this project is to get some fire in the holes. Since

the time I first looked at this and took delivery the previous owner removed

the non stock(Tillotson JR5A) updraft carb and cut the intake elbow and

rotated it 180* so he could use a downdraft carb. Now I am looking for an

intake manifold elbow and either a stock Marvel V-10-780 or any ideas for

a stock appearing replacement. In the meantime I'll busy myself with

compression and leakdown tests to verify condition and check the ignition

timing and chain backlash. Thanks for any tips or leads. Jeff Lynn

essexcoupe3131

Looks like you have a deluxe coupe, a very good score,

and very complete

I will have to sell you a mascot to go on her

Mike

TwinH

Mike,this mascot you speak of,got any pics?

TwinH

Well I'm a month into this now and starting to get situated. I've found

that the engine in it is a 29 model and I purchased a 31 motor/trans

last week with a good carb/intake. My brother picked up the 31 and pulled

the carb,intake,accessory drive housing,and exhaust manifold and shipped

down here leaving the rest in Ohio. I knew the exhaust manifold was

different(clamp-on 29-vs.-bolt on 31) but thought maybe the rest would

swap. WRONG, the intake elbow on the 31 has a wider bolt pattern where

it bolts to the block and a much larger "D"shaped intake port. The 29

intake elbow that the PO destroyed has a small round port as does the

29 block:(. Also the accessory drive housings are different as are the oil pumps,

although the 31 came with the correct dizzy(the 29 had a Chrysler-Autolite

dizzy that was functional)

The intake mismatch throws a wrench in my plans for trying to get the 29

engine running,unless I can find a 29 intake elbow to continue. I did take

the advice given here and dropped the pan to find all kinds of sludge

hiding there. The cylinder bores look decent from the bottom but the rings

must be stuck in the pistons. Cranking compression averages about 50 psi

dry and 70-80 with squirting oil in the cyls. Leakdown showed an average

20/80 with no leakage past valves. All of it going past rings.Oiling the cylinders showed no or very low leakdown for the first couple seconds

till the air blew all the oil past the rings then they went back down to

around 20/80.

The carb that came with the 31 engine looks great! All linkages on the

carb and heat control are free and no sign of pot metal deterioration.

Has a clear handmade lexan cover on the float bowl that is kind of

strange but very well done.

I haven't pulled any rod caps off the 29 engine in the car but although

they seem decent on the rod journals at least 2 of the have .040"or

more side clearance,so it seems I have issues there too. The light springs

inside the oil pump on the 29 were corroded into pieces which is really

no surprise after seeing the condition of the oil and the fact that they

are such small diameter wire. I can likely come up with something to work,

but holler if you know any sources.



All thoughts or opinions are welcome.







Sludge in the pan...





Heat control/carb off 31 engine after a little cleaning...







31 carb Anybody know how to determine what model of Marvel carb this is?

TwinH

Continued...











Here's why I can't swap the 31 heat control/intake elbow onto the 29 block





Here's the accessory drive housing off the 29 engine. You can see whats

left of the oil pump small springs just above the housing. What do you

splasher guys do for oil pump parts??





Here's the housing off the 31 engine that I haven't got into yet. The

housing and oil pump are different from the 29. Also dizzy retention

is different. I don't know how this is going to shake out yet.

ESSX28-1

I can probably help with oil pump spring if you can't find one closer than New Zealand!

essexcoupe3131

TwinH wrote:

Mike,this mascot you speak of,got any pics?

Like this 1 its a 30-31 Essex _Hudson, the Hudson 1 is slightly longer but most people dont know the difference

Mike

[Deleted User]

TwinH,



An interesting thread for sure. I enjoy seeing this kind of stuff.



I'm not all that up on these early Essex cars but hope to learn some things.



1) Are the 29 / 30 / and 31 engine all that different from one another that you can't swap many things?



2) What the heck is a "Dizzy" ????????



Keep up the good work and educating some of us.

Ron

[Deleted User]

Here's some info that I hope helps with the Marvel carb:



1929 Essex: Carb Assy. #10-733 Bowl Assy #: 65-588

1930 Essex: Carb Assy. #10-780 Bowl Assy #: 65-618

1931 Essex: Carb Assy. #10-946 Bowl Assy #: 65-631



From my 1925-1933 Marvel Chart.



Rick

essexcoupe3131

Oldcar_Mechanic wrote:

TwinH,



An interesting thread for sure. I enjoy seeing this kind of stuff.



I'm not all that up on these early Essex cars but hope to learn some things.



1) Are the 29 / 30 / and 31 engine all that different from one another that you can't swap many things?



2) What the heck is a "Dizzy" ????????



Keep up the good work and educating some of us.

Ron

The dizzy is the distributor



Mike



Mike

Spencer Yarrow

30 Essex in OZ doesn't have a mascot & I don't think U.S. models had one either.

new oil pump springs are available in OZ. e.mail Phil Haxby hetrules@yahoo.com.au or pphilha@tpg.com.au He is away till 15 th May but may be worth a try.They cost $10 AUS. plus shipping.



I have an inlet manifold available you can have for the cost of shipping but I think you should be able to get one closer to home,let me know if you need it.

awca12a

I have a spare elbow for the '29 Essex.

David Weinstein

erbpartners@gmail.com

TwinH

awca12a wrote:

I have a spare elbow for the '29 Essex.

David Weinstein

erbpartners@gmail.com

I really appreciate the offer David. I got a 29 elbow and the 31 carb won't

bolt to it... Just got back from Ohio where I strapped the 31 engine/trans

on a pallet and sent it down here. Thinking now I'll be using this 31 engine

instead of the 29. It is supposed to be here tomorrow,so we'll soon see

how this works out.

TwinH

Engine got here fine and on time. Turns out it is a 1930 and not a 31 as

advertised.Perfect for the 30 coupe though. Broke it down and got it on

an engine stand yesterday. You may recall I bought the 30 coupe with a

29 motor in it sans carburetor and then found issues with the oil pump,

connecting rods,stuck rings and the fact that the intake elbow from the

1930 won't swap to the 29.

The 30 engine seems in better shape EXCEPT for a lot of pitting on the

rearmost (exh) lobe on the camshaft. Weird as all the other lobes look

just fine and the affected lobe is OK on the base circle but horribly pitted

on the opening and closing ramp.:( More fun in store I'm sure as I get farther

into it.



Engine arrives,









Teardown, note that the transmission tried to go all "Deepwater Horizon"

on me...







Abundance of mice/squirrel food in the water jackets...









cont...

TwinH

Finally,on the stand...









Stay tuned! Jeff Lynn

stev1955

Thanks for the update. I'm following this closely.

stev1955

Hey TwinH, does that engine bolt up to a normal engine stand?

TwinH

Good question Steve. The answer is yes, but not without a lot of head scratching. I'll try and post up a pic tonight. Jeff

stev1955

Thanks Jeff.

TwinH

Here you go Steve,pretty tight around the crankshaft flange but it does fit

OK. Question,does the gray/green color in this pic look like the original color?

Getting ahead of myself,but who sells engine paint for Essex engines? Is it

the same as Hudson? I just haven't looked around yet,but figure there will

be knowledge here.











Off with the head! Had this actually ran I'm guessing it would have been on

the warm side. Who knows how much ditch water has gone through here

over the years. See that third water port?







Its a golf tee...







This extra hardware came out of the hose end of the water manifold.









cont...

stev1955

Thanks Jeff. That's an amazing amount of stuff in the water passages. How the heck did a golf tee get in there I wonder? Who knows after 80 years.

TwinH

The cylinder head nuts all came off quite easily with the impact gun and the

air turned down to 40psi. Wish I could say the same for the studs but I'm

sure I'll spend much more time on them. I've had luck before heating up the

cast and using candle wax to wick down into the threads. What is everybody

else's preferred method for removing studs that go into a water jacket?















All is going well,no ridge in the cylinders to speak off,THEN, I see this in the

#1 cylinder on the valve side... aargh,what the heck? Don't know what

caused this yet but would be interested in opinions. I'll pop the piston out

tomorrow and share the results. Interestingly there are no marks, grooves

etc below this. Hhhmmm.

Spencer Yarrow

Twin-H

If you are going to reuse the old pistons get them x-rayed for cracks,I did and all of them had cracks around the gudgon pin and most had cracks in the top above the ring.The photo's attached show the gudgon cracks but I don't have photo's of the top.These cracks are not visable to the naked eye.

Spencer.

ESSX28-1

Lester Harris of Minden Nevada has NOS pistons for the Essex - cast iron not ali. He's in the roster. Good prices & a helpful guy.

Spencer Yarrow

Pistons from a Caterpillar Pilot engine are the same size and are alli. They go straight in but only have 2 compression rings and 1 oil ring above the gudgon. I have had these pistons in my car for about 8 years without any problems.The price here in AUS. was cheaper than new Essex pistons. The advantage with these pistons is there is a lot more distance from the top of the top ring to the top of the piston, if you put the two side by side you will see the advantage.



Spencer.

Geoff

Don't use cast iron p0istons, they make the engine sluggish and harsh because of the extra weight, as they up set the orginal balancing.

TwinH

Spencer Yarrow wrote:

Twin-H

If you are going to reuse the old pistons get them x-rayed for cracks,I did and all of them had cracks around the gudgon pin and most had cracks in the top above the ring.The photo's attached show the gudgon cracks but I don't have photo's of the top.These cracks are not visable to the naked eye.

Spencer.

Gee Spencer,your just full of good news. I have only looked the #1 piston

over well and can almost see at least one of the cracks you speak of. I'll dig out

some old dye penetrant inspection spray bombs that I haven't seen in 20 yrs.

and see if they will show the cracks. I will definitely check into the Caterpillar

"pony motor" pistons too that sounds like a great alternative. I really wouldn't

be interested in iron pistons but I still appreciate the tip. I think you'd have a

hard time balancing a much heavier piston with the crankshaft.



No pics yet but the crank and rod/pistons are out and #1 piston shows no

damage that could cause the Oklahoma shaped gouge in the #1 cylinder

wall. I'm really starting to believe that the gouge may be a boring bar

accident from when this engine was built 80 yrs. ago. If thats the case

its hard to believe the rings are still in one piece and harder to believe

that they would have actually sent it on down the line knowing that it

had such an obvious defect.



Thanks to all for helping bring this 80 year old piece back to life. Jeff Lynn

Unknown

put that motor and head into a molasses bath, will come out looking like new.



55 gallon drum, 5 gallons of molasses from a feed store & water. let the motor soak for about 2 week. rinse and coat the motor so it doesn't flash rust.



this will work on any cast parts you want to clean.







KH

TwinH

I'd love it to be much cleaner already and have heard of the mollasses bath

but I'd be afraid of ruining the Babbitt on the mains.

TwinH

Anybody have a special recipe or procedure for degreasing the block

without destroying the babbit?





The 29 engine/trans came out last weekend.