Modify Hudson Turnsignal Switch for 4-way Flashers?

Jon BJon B Administrator
edited June 5 in HUDSON Posts: 6,760
Is anyone aware of a way of modifying the original Hudson turnsignal switches so they could provide 4-way emergency flashers?

I know that aftermarket turnsignal switches with flashers are available, but they don't look right if you're trying for the authentic look of the original signals. 

I envision the regular Hudson switch on the column, under the wheel, and then an unobtrusive flasher switch under the dash.  There would have to be a "little black box" in the dash which isolated the left and right circuits.  This would allow all four lights to blink on-off together with the flasher switch pulled, but then isolate them under normal circumstances so that the two left lights would blink together and the two right lights would blink together.  And in models where the rear signals ran through the brakelight, there'd be a version of the black box for that type of light, too.

I ask this question because I know of a person who likes to devise custom electronics for old cars, and thought I might approach him about inventing the black box and offering it to us (and maybe other old car owners with similar 6-volt turnsignal circuitry).  Of course, I'd also be interested in knowing if there is any demand for this sort of thing!  I'm thinking that the price would have to be kept to less than $75, 'cause I'm a cheapskate.

But I need to know if there's something out there already.  If there is,  I don't want to trouble this guy!

Comments

  • KustomKreepsKustomKreeps Member
    Posts: 146
    cant imagine it would be very hard to do. if you have the indicators on your model of car then just a simple rewire to a new on/off switch that will activate both sides at once.
    cost would be for the switch and a lil bit of wire. so $0 - $5.

    Not having a Hudson with turn signals im unsure how the stock unit looks. But basically you are just bridging the left and right sides with a switch.

    I know my American Auto wire kit came with the setup and my ididit column has one as well.

    or go to summit and buy a unit i guess. A quick summit search for "Hazard" seemed to bring up heap of units.



    Anyone car restore a car. Takes a real man to cut it up.

    49 Hudson
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  • Ken U-TxKen U-Tx Senior Contributor
    Posts: 3,230
        I did it with mine about 30 years ago, and it was a switch under the dash with a DPDT relay and an extra flasher relay.....This was while I was in college studying electrical circuits, so I would have to get under the dash and reverse engineer it again after all these years. Nowadays they have solid state  signal converters like they use for adapting trailer brake and turn signal circuit to that of a modern car with separate stop and turn signal bulbs....Let me think about this when I am not so tired.....
        Jon B, what turn signal switch did you use? The 48-51 three wire switch, or the later 52-53 six wire switch that was used with the single dual filament tail light bulb? I would tink you adapted a dual filament bulb socket to the tail lights of your '37 T-Plane and then installed the Stepdown 6 wire switch?
  • RichardDRichardD Member
    edited June 5 Posts: 426

    Perhaps for consideration: I decided that the front lights in the 4-way flashers weren't really needed since most of the time you would be on the side of the road and must worry about the back end not the front end !!!
    Not on an early one, Jon, but someone might be interested.
    Here is the video showing operation. Don't think anyone could have better warning lights on the rear.  The back-up lights are connected into it and are 50 WATTS each.

    edit: front parking/turn lights could also be connected if wanted; but more diodes are needed [and I have around 8 already on this car because I am eccentric]. Have the front wired up as running lights also {on when the ign. switch is on}.

    https://vimeo.com/120428548

  • RichardDRichardD Member
    edited June 19 Posts: 426

    See the one at bottom--[ June 18th ]. Wiring diagram for my system (includes the backup camera I have).
    Backup lites at O'Reillys #BLZ-RE761C, $25.
    Note: this on a 12V system.
    Edit: front lights added for hazard lights. Diagram modified.


  • Jon BJon B Administrator
    Posts: 6,760
    Ken, mine is the 6-wire version of the Hudson turnsignal switch.  The brakelight also serves as the turn signal.

    Richard, thanks for your diagram, but my hope was to discover if there is an existing component (or series of components) that could be easily adapted by the average Hudson owner, to turn their signal system into a 4-way flasher mode.  The black box I envision would have a number of labeled leads, would fit behind the dash, and could be easily connected by the average Hudson owner.  It would be great to have someone work up a detailed wiring diagram but it's my guess that a lot of Hudson owners would have neither the know-how nor the desire to become involved in such an electronic project.

    While I agree that rear lights are most important, in a flasher system, it would be nice to have the capability of having all four of them flash. 
  • RichardDRichardD Member
    Posts: 426
    To make them all flash, run 2 wires to the front lights.
  • Jon BJon B Administrator
    Posts: 6,760
    The diagram seems rather simple, but I'm confused. 

    In my turnsignal set-up, rear bulb "bright" filaments serve both brake and turn signal functions, and because of this the brake light circuit interfaces with the turnsignal circuit. 

    Overall,  there are 4 separate light circuits (front-right, front-left, rear-right, rear-left), and lights come on in different combinations depending upon the desired mode.    For example, when brakes are applied, both rear brake light filaments illuminate.  When left signal is activated, rear-left and front-left lights blink in unison, while rear-right lamp illuminates steadily (brake light) and front-right lamp is dark.  When right signal is activated, just the opposite happens.

    None of the four lamp circuits can be wired together (for 4-way flasher functions) because in any of the other modes (stop, left turn, right turn) all four lights would illuminate as well.

    In your diagram I don't see the turnsignal switch.  How would you divide the functions of the 4 lights so that they illuminate in different combinations?

    I think that relays might be needed, activated by the emergency flasher switch.  Upon activation the relays would temporarily connect all four lamps on one circuit, so they could flash together.  As soon as the switch is turned off, all four circuits would be de-coupled, if you will, and the original configuration would be restored.

    But, perhaps your diagram will accomplish this.  I'm not an "electrical person" so need to have this all explained to me!



  • RichardDRichardD Member
    edited June 5 Posts: 426
    Just forget about the turn signal switch. I just went to the brake filament of the bulbs; but connected at the brake light switch. Note the flasher is another flasher, not the turn signal flasher. This is just the simple way to do it in my opinion.
    You would use only the one wire at the top of the diagram; forget the rest of it. Like falling off a log as we say in the south!
    If you want to connect in the front lights, just do it; but you would need a diode to prevent the brake from operating the front signal lights. That really wouldn't matter though !
  • RichardDRichardD Member
    edited June 5 Posts: 426
    Jon, I am about to become confused myself; anyway, you can see it works in the video. Try something. It will only blow a fuse.  
    I am trying to find a remote brake fluid reservoir cap so I can tell folks that I don't have to check my fluid, just look for the blinking light on the dash. Eccentric? Most likely~~~
  • Jon BJon B Administrator
    edited June 5 Posts: 6,760
    Thanks for your suggestions on wiring up a system.  What I was trying to determine by posting this question, was whether something already existed "out there" which could easily convert the standard turn signal to a 4-way flasher, without buying the aftermarket (and non original) directional signal switch.  If no such components exist (and it's a question of fiddling around trying to invent the circuitry), then I may ask the gentleman (whom I mentioned) if he could devise one and sell it for a reasonable price to Hudson owners who wanted one.  I do, however, appreciate your suggestions.

    As to the reservoir cap with blinking light, you just missed a NOS one for sale here at the Forum: http://forum.hetclub.org/discussion/170062/accessory-low-brake-fluid-light-kit-old-stock-in-box-sold#latest
  • RichardDRichardD Member
    Posts: 426
    Thanks, Jon. My brake reservoir is a Wilwood remote.
    In my first comment here I said "Not an early one,Jon, but someone might be interested".
     Knew you didn't have a step down, but still think something is applicable.
    Good luck on finding what you are looking for (that most likely doesn't exist).
  • Oldfarmer1947gmailcomOldfarmer1947gmailcom Expert Adviser
    Posts: 1,275
    Richard :  Very well thought out solution and integration of the backup cameral and display.  Thank you for sharing with the forum.
  • sidevalvesidevalve Member
    Posts: 33
    I have several period 4-way flasher kits, if that would help. Not Hudson parts, but NOS 30s-50s (Signal-Stat, Yankee, etc.).
  • sidevalvesidevalve Member
    Posts: 33
    Just sold these, but pretty sure I've got some others:

    www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-vtg-MIB-1950s-Flarestat-hazard-4-way-flashers-great-accessory-for-safety-/222507046439
  • Jon BJon B Administrator
    Posts: 6,760
    If that works with Hudson's six-wire directional switch, and is good for 6 volts, then it answers my question.  A device IS available that can retro-fit a 4-way flasher onto a Hudson with original turnsignal (that works through the brakes).  So, no need to approach my "electronics guy" with the request to invent one!
  • Oldfarmer1947gmailcomOldfarmer1947gmailcom Expert Adviser
    Posts: 1,275

    Jon... everything that is in Richards electrical schematic will work for a 6 volt system when the components are selected to match the system voltage.  There are plenty of vendors that provide the items shown in 6 volt form. Even the backup camera can be used in your car all that is required is to carry a small 12 volt battery to power that part or all of that system.  For several decades a friend of mine had after market Air conditioning in his 1951 Hornet.  The AC required 12 volts to make the compressor clutch work.   The blower motors operated on 6 volts.  He charged the battery every other day when using the car regularly.  Otherwise one would not know there was a difference between stock and the need for the 12 volts to engage the clutch.


  • RichardDRichardD Member
    Posts: 426
    Correction on the Hazard light schematic in above post. I was connecting my low brake fluid alarm into the hazard light flashing indicator light and found out that the hazard flasher would not work when system turned on.  I connected the front running light wiring into the flasher system so there would be enough resistance for the flasher to operate. Now the system works on the rear AND the front( by necessity).  
    Hudson haz and camera wiring_20170618_153159.jpg
    4756 x 2751 - 1M
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