Starter solution

JasonNC

I have noticed that a lot of guys on this website (as well as I) have had problems with their starters engaging and not releasing, broken bendix gears, etc.  About four or five years ago, a friend and I made a plate for a Chevy high speed mini-starter and put in on my 48 Commodore Six.  Problem solved.  I haven't had a problem with the starter hanging up since.  I had a spare mini-starter that I had purchased from Speedway or Summit, so I decided to try my hand at reproducing my first effort.  I took the back plate of an original Hudson starter, had a 2 inch offset hole drilled in it and, using my first design as a model, attached the spare mini-starter to it.  I had to have the rectangular aluminum base for the starter cut in a circle in order to fit inside the bell housing.  The plan is to put this starter on my 49 Super Six.  I tried unsuccessfully to post a photo of both.  

JasonNC

Okay, there is something to be said about persistence.  

hudsonguy

Jason,

You must have an automatic in your '49?

JasonNC

Nope, straight drive.  So is the 48, which has had the starter on the right installed in it for the past three or four years.  And I didn't have to turn the flywheel around.  I have the one on the left partially installed in the 49.  I took the floor panel out to make sure that it engages properly, but haven't had a chance to check it out yet.  

hudsonguy

Jason, so do you mean you're using this 'front engagement' starter on your original 'rear engagement' flywheel ring gear? How does the wear pattern on the ring gear look, since it wouldn't have the chamfers to help with alignment? It seems like that would wear those teeth out pretty quick. I'm just trying to understand, no criticism whatsoever.

bob ward

The geared mini starters engage much more gently with a ring gear than a bendix drive starter does, the starter doesn't start turning until the pinion is fully engaged with the flywheel.

The pinion teeth are chamfered, so even though they are engaging with the square cut side of the ring gear they mesh without problems. The engagement forces are almost zero, there is no risk of the pinion pushing the ring gear off the flywheel.

I have a similar arrangement to Jason on a 35 H8, I suspect the adaptor I made will work for 34 to 54 manual transmissions. There is a thread somewhere on here from 2 or 3 years ago.

Kdancy

I'd like to try that with a mini starter. Good idea Jason. 

JasonNC

Bob is right, the original homemade starter meshes great with the flywheel on the 48.  I wasn't so lucky with the 49.  The newest starter meshed briefly, then started missing the flywheel. It needs to have some shims added to get it to line up properly.  The problem is that the 49 still has the original anchor bolts that tend to loosen and shift, hence the failure to engage properly.   To make bad matters worse, I stripped the threads on the bottom front bolt.  I'm probably going to have to take the transmission out to rectify that problem.  

GrimGreaser

What timing... I just finished my custom starter project. Many thanks to Ol Racer for the inspiration and my buddy Jeremy at work for running the CNC.  It started life as a starter from a Dodge Durango, shaved the unneeded bits off and made a custom adapter. I can clock to 4 positions as needed too.

Kdancy

Grim, is that a gear reduction starter? cnc looks nice!

GrimGreaser

Yes, a Denso unit. What's nice is the pinion gears are readily available.  My hand-made, first attempt wasn't nearly as robust... flange would flex and engagement would be poor.

29sptphaeton

Grim, Are you going to make these adapters available? Looks like a very nice unit.

GrimGreaser

That's a big maybe...  At the least, I would be happy to share my drawings and files for a small donation to my Hudson parts fund.  

BillUSN1

I have a CNC guy if needed. He's pretty reasonable.

Not sure I would need one once I get the 200 4r adapter, it should have the new starter with it.

But I would definitely swap one in place of the stock starter if I kept the man/OD.

ratwasp

Where can I buy a stock style Bendix starter for my '54?

Glowplug

Lance Walker ... contact via HET Roster

JasonNC

In the meantime, on the starter pictured above on the left, the round aluminum part kept working itself loose from the plate.  Since aluminum is nearly impossible to weld to steel, I took it to a local machine shop and he made a prototype out of all steel.  It works perfectly.  

Ol racer

FYI
Glad to see a Mini Starter adapted for Manual Shift Hudson's too and always nice to see ingenuity at work.Thanks Grim Greaser for mentioning my Mopar Starter Conversion for Automatic's fabricated using scrap metal & basic garage tools a few Yrs ago and they still work well. However, the CNC Machined Adapters look much superior though.

ratwasp

Does the solenoid have anything to do with the starter engaging?  Or is Bendix gear completely mechanical?   (my starter is freewheeling)

onerare39

If this is on your 54 where your solenoid is on the inner fender, then no.  The solenoid sends current to the starter.  If the starter is freewheeling it may be two things.  The starter drive gear may be spinning and not moving forward to engage the flywheel.  I have used some very light machine oil on the drive gear shaft to get things moving.  Also it may be that the drive gear is moving out to engage the flywheel but the teeth on the flywheel may be worn and can't make contact.  Try rotating the engine ahead a bit by using the radiator fan, keeping good tension on the belt.  Then try the starter, it will be engaging at a different point on the flywheel. 

lostmind

Check to see if the bolts are tight , doesn't take much for the drive to miss the starter.
Should have a stud from factory , but the get replaced with a bolt and nut usually.

Hudson_in_Seattle

i saw this on ebay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hudson-Hydramatic-Mini-12-Volt-Starter-Replaces-MCH6107-MCH6204-1951-1954/272657670999?hash=item3f7ba9e357:g:hm0AAMXQCgpRs9Jz - any thoughts?

GrimGreaser

Those are great starters.  If you look earlier in this very thread, you'll see the one I made as well as Old Racers - whom I copied and improved on a bit.  Ours are modified Dodge 318 starters.

Hudson_in_Seattle

thanks for the input - when i read the description, it mentioned removing the solenoid (see, below) - any concerns or advice for this? thanks again

"This Starter has a built in Solenoid, If you already have a fender well solenoid there will be instructions for that also"

Hudson_in_Seattle

grim - are you selling a 12v starter?

54coupe

Hudson_in_Seattle said:

grim - are you selling a 12v starter?

Be aware of what you are looking at... Stick shift and automatics do not use the same starters. I don't remember what your car has in it.

54coupe

The conversions I have done, I weld the ring gear to the flywheel... I've had the starter push the ring gear off of a stick shift flywheel on two applications.

GrimGreaser

I am not selling those, what you don't see is how much of the Dodge starter has to be trimmed off, and how much I still had to "gunsmith" the rest of it to fit.  I made mine because I could afford to mess around with a $40 junk-yard starter.  And yes, mine is for a Hydramatic.

Hudson_in_Seattle

thanks - what about loosing the external solenoid on the ebay offering?

54coupe

Losing the solenoid is not an issue. You just have to redo some wiring.

Hudson_in_Seattle

54coupe said:

Losing the solenoid is not an issue. You just have to redo some wiring.

thanks!