New mounts, new noise

51Hudson
51Hudson Senior Contributor
edited September 2014 in HUDSON
Hello everyone, I just bought and installed two new motor mounts and one new transmission mount on my 51 Hudson Super six with the 262 in it.  Everything went well and everything lined up, but now I have a new noise.  Both 1st and 2nd now have a "whine noise" in it and it is more present if you raise your speed or let off the gas and let the car slow you down.  Does anyone know what is causing this or if this is ok?  The good news is I no longer have a shudder when letting off the clutch taking off from a stop.  I think that was caused by a bad transmission mount.  Both engine mounts where ok but I replaced them anyways.  I figured it wouldn't be too long before they went bad.  Thanks for your help.

Comments

  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Hello again, does anyone have any ideas what is causing this? It sounds like it is in the transmission but why would it happen after I replaced the mounts. Thanks.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Ken U-Tx, all I can say is WOW and thanks for the great response.  But yes, this noise stated right after I changed the mounts.  How do you tell if your carrier bearing is bad and where can you get one from?  I'm sure it is cheaper and easier to replace the carrier bearing than the transmission.  I'm not 100% sure it is coming from the trans, it just sounds like it is coming from below me and it only happens in 1st and 2nd.  Now onto the gear oil.  I just drained and refilled both the trans and O.D this spring with Valvoline 80w-90.  I will check this weekend if it meets the yellow metal standard and if not I will replace with Royal Purple.  Thanks again for all your help.
  • dwardo99
    dwardo99 Expert Adviser
    One other possibility ... in my limited experience, every reproduction motor mount I have ever bought is noticeably harder (less "give") than the factory mounts, even accounting for the fact that the factory mounts were old and soft. I guess it has to do with the rubbers that are available. I have found that my Hornet feels like it idles roughly from inside the car yet if I look at the engine it seems to be running perfectly smoothly. My thinking is that if the new mounts are much harder, they will transmit noise and vibration that has been there all along but were masked by the softness of the old mounts. Just my .02. 
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Thanks for your response. I was also talking to a friend about this and he was thinking the same thing.
  • I also changed the transmission and motor mounts in my 35 Terraplane. I now have the same noise that Kurt has. I also changed the oil at the same time but used the same GL-5 gear oil that I use in my farm equipment. After reading these comments I will drain my oil and put in some Royal Purple or equivalent. I learn something new every time I am on here.

    Good grief, this forum has been a godsend to me. Thank all of you for your knowledge and willingness to help.

     

    Mike

  • wano1949
    wano1949 Senior Contributor
    Usually the whine comes from the trans mount.
    Too hard or improperly made so that there is a metal connection through the rubber isolator.
    I used to run solid metal engine and trans mounts in certain cars and on the street the gear noise would literally set your teeth on edge at highway speeds.
    Check to see if you have a too long bolt or something that touches the trans case and cross member together.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Thanks wano 1949 for your suggestion. I will look this weekend.
  • railknight
    railknight Expert Adviser
    edited September 2014

    Many, many years ago.  Well, 1981 to be precise.  I had a 1979 Mercury Monarch (Mercury's version of the Ford Granada) that had a bad transmission mount which allowed the drive shaft to strike the rear floor pans when the car was accelerated quickly.

    Anyway, I was told by a Hertz Rental Car (where I bought the car) mechanic (he diagnosed the problem) to replace the trans mount.  This I did with an off brand mount for the Monarch.  The car had a noticable vibration with the new mount, especailly when stopped and idling.  I then installed a Ford/Mercury factory transmission mount and the problem with the vibrations and drive shaft disappeared.

    Just my 2 cents worth, 

    Dan 

  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Hi all, I didn't say earlier but the mounts I bought came from Dr.Doug, so I would think they would be the proper mounts.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    I would check for something touching the frame or body. The noise was'nt there before you replaced the mount, so something has changed position.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Well I just drove it for about 45 minutes tonight and the noise was not as loud as before but it is still there. I'm thinking it is more in the Trans than the drive shaft cause it was not as loud and I think it was cause it is colder out so the oil was colder and thicker. Also when you are going down a hill and let the car slow you down, you can hear the whine but if you push the clutch in the noise goes away. So I'm still confused but I'm thinking it is Trans related. Maybe some new proper oil will help.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Well I took a look at the oil I put in there and it is actually lucas 80w90 and it says it is good for yellow metals. Tomorrow I will crawl under and take a look to see if anything is rubbing on the mount.
  • duncan
    duncan Expert Adviser
    Check the u joints. If the trans and engine have been raised up a little bit the wear on u joints change posision.
    Hudsonly Ray
  • bartibog1
    bartibog1 Expert Adviser
    Check the u joints I agree with ray on this one seen it before one might be froze and not moving when shaft turns

    Steve
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Hello again, today I checked the u joints and they seemed ok and I even greased them all up and that made no difference in noise. Then I checked the mount and it was not making any contact with any of the bolts and I even flipped the mount 180 degrees and that made no difference in noise. From there I checked the oil in the Trans and o.d and both of those where full. So tonight I'm going to order a new carrier bearing along with two new mounts to hold the carrier bearing from rock auto and hopefully that will help.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Hello. Please help. I got the drive shaft out to replace the carrier bearing and the bearing I bought from rock auto is too small. The i.d of the bearing is too small. Does anyone know the part number to the carrier bearing for a 51 Hudson? Hopefully a store around here has one so I can put this back together with a new bearing even though this old one doesn't feel to bad. Thanks for any help.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Yes. That is the bearing they gave me. It looks like they have the one I need listed under a 54. Does any one know a part # for a bearing that maybe napa has or maybe I will have to put it back together and return and wait for the proper one from rock auto. Thanks
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Ok. This morning I cleaned the old bearing off and I found a number on it. It said new departure x88107. So I guess that makes sense with the other bearing from rock auto which is a national 88107. Unfortunately napa can't get the bearing till Tuesday so I guess I put this back together and save it for a winter project.
  • I also believe most repro mounts are way too hard. Also some of the very old NOS mounts are hard as a rock. I have had better luck with good used rear mounts. 

  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Ok. I guess I skipped over the part # you gave me. Thanks for the # it helps me make sure I am ordering the right one this time. I wonder why mine has the bigger bearing? Did all the 51's come with the smaller one? Anyways I am returning the smaller bearing and have the bigger one on order from rock auto so I guess next weekend I will tear into it again and replace it then.
  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Hello again. I got the correct bearing the other day and just got done putting it in. It was very easy to put in unlike the rear stabilizer bolts I dealt with last weekend. But anyways, the noise is still there. So I think the noise is inside the transmission.
  • Geoff
    Geoff Senior Contributor
    It makes no sense at all that you would have a noise induced by fitting new mounts, unless the mounts are harder rubber than the originals, or something has changed position and rubbing against the bodywork.
  • SuperDave
    SuperDave Senior Contributor
    I agree Geoff.. Perhaps wrong hardware? I would certainly concentrate on the center support.
  • lostmind
    lostmind Expert Adviser

    If you still have the old mounts , reinstall the old trans mount and check the noise. I'm guessing the center bolt is bottomed out on the trans. Or the new mount is to high and there is miss alignment.

    Also measure your old front mounts and compare the height to the new ones.

    It may be your noise is " normal" for a Hudson trans , hard to hear it through the internet.

    Cars with overdrive have more " whine" than Standard trans.

    My guess is , it was there before , you are now " tuned in" to it

  • 51Hudson
    51Hudson Senior Contributor
    Ok. Thanks everyone. I do have the original Trans mount and the car does have O.D. All the mounts I bought where from Dr. Doug so I hope they would be right. The old Trans mount is all torn up and collapsed. Thats how it was when I took it out. Now the old motor mounts I took out where only a couple of years old. I replaced them with some cheap mounts that someone suggested on here that would work. Which they did and they where only $4 each. But fast forward a couple of years and the Trans mount is bad, I figured I would also replace the engine mounts with original ones. The original ones are a little shorter than the aftermarket ones I took out.
  • dwardo99
    dwardo99 Expert Adviser
    edited October 2014
    One other thing, which I did not find out until after we put all new mounts in our Hornet. It seems that very frequently, the engine plate that the front mounts bolt to is bent. I think this was the case with our car because we had most difficulty in aligning the mount studs to the holes. I don't remember but we might have enlarged the holes a bit. Now, if the holes don't quite line up and there is a side load being put on the mounts, that might do it. 
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